Wales and Scarlets flanker Ken Owens

Q&A – Ken Owens: You can never say never, but I would like to finish my career at Scarlets

and hooker Ken Owens tells NEALE HARVEY his Test and trophy ambitions still burn bright as he approaches his seventh year of club captaincy.

All being well, you'll make your 250th Scarlets appearance against the Dragons on Saturday. How does that feel?

It's a good lot of games and it seems a long way from where I started at Carmarthen Athletic, but time certainly flies. 2006, the year I made my Scarlets debut, doesn't feel that far back.

Do you think the Covid break will increase your longevity now?

I'll have to wait and see but the time off came just at the right moment, physically and mentally. It had been a tough old year with the , straight back into the Christmas derbies with the regions, Europe and then the Six Nations, so when you think of what had gone on previously with summer tours and the , it had been pretty much non-stop since the 2015 World Cup. To get five months away from playing was good and it's allowed me to do a bit of goal-setting, which has definitely added to my motivation now.

Off the field, what challenges did you face as club captain?

The coaching staff and management have been fantastic. They've done a lot of the hard work and once it became clear what the effect of Covid was going to be, they were very respectful in giving guys time off. There were a lot of calls to the players association, the WRU and the regions over pay-cuts and return to play protocols, but generally we've been on the same page and have worked in the same direction.

Have Scarlets emerged from this situation as well as can be expected?

I think so. From a rugby point of view the boys came back in great shape and hopefully that will stand us in good stead. Clubs and people have had to tighten their belts and do what they needed to survive, but we're in a pretty good position to stabilise and hopefully we're able to kick-on, finish the season strongly and take that into next year.

You've just been appointed captain for a seventh season in 2020/21, beating Phil Bennett's record of six, must be proud of that?

It's a huge honour. My plan had been to step back a bit and I spoke to (head coach) Glenn Delaney in January about the role and thought it was perhaps time to pass it on to someone else, but lockdown happened and it freshened me up. After a good conversation with Glenn, I knew I had the hunger to carry on and, ultimately, it was him who made the call. To go seven seasons on the bounce now is huge for me and I did have a brief conversation with Phil Bennett a couple of weeks ago. We had a bit of fun with it but he said some very kind words about me which really meant a lot. He's been one of the great captains of our regions and hopefully I can do him justice now.

How do you reflect on your first six years as skipper?

We were in transition when I took over in 2013, with a lot of younger players getting opportunities and senior guys retiring or moving on. We built from there, gained confidence and had two very successful seasons, winning the PRO12 in 2016/17, reaching another final a year later and reaching the Champions Cup semi-final as well. Unfortunately, we came up against a phenomenal Leinster side in 2018 and were then a little disappointed in Wayne Pivac's last season when a mass of injuries meant we couldn't get any continuity going, but it has been an enjoyable period and this season we're still contending for silverware.

With Wayne's successor, Brad Mooar, leaving so soon for the All Blacks and Glenn Delaney now taking over, how has that transition been handled?

Glenn was a huge part of the management team with Brad and a real driving force in the environment anyway. He came in as defence coach so he's had a good look at how Welsh rugby works now and has a good gauge of things at the club. We haven't changed too much and hopefully we can go on and beat Toulon and kick-on in the Challenge Cup. Having had time with the squad and the chance to have a good look at the boys, and with the environment being pretty spot on anyway, it's just a case of adding to that now and we want to win some silverware.

Did you ever consider moving to England or going abroad?

There have been opportunities in the past but they never came at the right time. A huge driver for me has been playing for Wales and at the time those opportunities came along I was never quite in the right position with different rules in place – exceptions, wildcards, number of caps etc. I've never wanted to jeopardise my chances of playing for Wales and, from a Scarlets point of view as well, I've always had something to prove. Deep down inside me I have loyalty, respect and a close empathy to the region and there's always been that nagging feeling that there's still stuff to achieve here. I've always wanted to do that as well.

At 33, do you see yourself finishing your career at Scarlets?

I'd like to think so. You can never say never because you don't know what opportunities might present themselves, but it would be good to finish off with the Scarlets as a one-club man. I had a lot of time to reflect during lockdown and I'm pretty comfortable with the career I've had and the decisions I've made, so I just want to enjoy the next couple of years and if I'm enjoying my rugby here, hopefully my form will be good enough to keep me in contention internationally.

How well do you remember your Wales debut at the 2011 World Cup?

Throwback: Alun Wyn Jones congratulates tryscorer Lloyd Williams as Wales go on to beat Namibia at the 2011 Rugby World Cup. Stu Forster/Getty Images

Against Namibia, in New Plymouth… like yesterday. It was a great evening with my family there to watch me win my first cap. I'd been on the bench during the 2010 Six Nations without playing, but that gave me more desire and determination and when I finally got my cap at the World Cup 18 months later, it meant the world to me. It was the only time I played at that World Cup but to be part of a special competition for Wales, with how we embraced the tournament and how New Zealand embraced us, was a fabulous memory.

You now have 77 caps, but it took you four years to nail down the starting jersey, so how hard a battle was that?

It shows the quality of hookers there have been in Welsh rugby. You had Huw Bennett, Matthew Rees, Scott Baldwin and Richard Hibbard and I consider myself lucky to have been involved coming off the bench for quite a long time given the options available back then. I was just grateful to be part of a successful Welsh squad. For a few seasons Richard Hibbard was one of the best hookers in the world and my role was to come on and continue the intensity that he brought to the game. I wasn't always happy on the bench but when the other guy is of that quality you have to accept that and when you do eventually get an opportunity to start, you have to take it. I got that opportunity on the 2016 tour of New Zealand and managed to keep hold of the shirt, but I've always been one to do what's best for the team and I'm driven to keep working hard.

Grabbing the Welsh starting jersey paved the way to two Lions caps in New Zealand a year later, where does that stand in your career?

The Lions is the absolute ultimate. I came from a small club in West Wales in Carmarthen Athletic who've got a pretty decent Lions heritage in Gerald Davies, Delme Thomas and Roy Bergiers, so they were always guys who've been held in high esteem and to be picked to follow in their footsteps was a massive honour. You don't understand the magnitude of the Lions as a player until you actually go on the tour and see how everything happens. It was fantastic to be involved in such a great series against New Zealand and I was hugely proud of that. If I can keep my form and fitness, hopefully I can put my hand up for a second tour in South Africa next year.

Aren't you sick of the Springboks after successive World Cup exits at their hands?

We've certainly seen plenty of them with Wales over the last few years and generally our record has been good. You know what you're going to get from South Africa but we were really disappointed with how that semi-final went last year and to lose by three points in the last few minutes was gut-wrenching. It was a hugely physical game and we left everything out on the field, so sometimes you just have to congratulate the other side. All credit to them for the way they reached the final and despatched a good England team pretty convincingly at the end. They were fully deserving of winning the World Cup after bouncing back from losing to New Zealand and they had a good game plan with that 6-2 split on the bench. You know what's coming but it's very difficult to stop because they're big, physical men who are very dynamic as well, so that's what the Lions will face.

Given the magnitude of the Lions and that task in South Africa, are you disappointed that Premiership Rugby will not allow the English players more preparation time?

Speaking to the English boys, the Lions mean exactly the same to them as the Welsh, Scottish and Irish lads, so they'd love that bit of extra time to prepare because it's the ultimate tour every four years. Some players might only get one opportunity and while you understand the commercial side of Premiership Rugby and the need for a set number of games to generate revenue, the Lions has a special place in rugby and a bit more effort could be made to give those English players the best preparation possible to be successful. You don't want to get too political about these things but it's amazing how they can fit in midweek fixtures when it suits them now but can't manage it just once every four years for the Lions.

How big a personal task are you facing to be selected for that tour?

You've only got to look at England with Jamie George and Luke Cowan-Dickie, who've been on fire for their country. You look at English boys who aren't in that squad like Tommy Taylor and Jack Singleton and they have real quality in depth. Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown are exceptional for and there are opportunities for younger boys in to make their mark now Rory Best has retired. In Wales, we've got Elliot Dee and Ryan Elias and lots of young boys coming through like Dewi Lake, so it's great for British and Irish rugby that there are so many hookers to choose from. That goes for all the positions and there'll be a squad of Lions players left behind who would have been good enough to go to South Africa.

You've got terrific competition at Scarlets, with Ryan Elias, Taylor Davies and Marc Jones pushing hard, do you relish that pressure?

Competition: Ken Owens is contending with the Scarlets depth at hooker which runs three deep. Athena Pictures/Getty Images

It's fantastic. I was lucky to play with some great hookers at the Scarlets like Matthew Rees and Mahonri Schwalger and learnt off those guys, and the competition is just as strong now. You need that to stay sharp and keep pushing. We've got even younger guys pushing through from our academy, and you need that strength in depth. It's great Scarlets are in such a strong position.

League-wise, what do you make of talk of a PRO18 with the other South African sides joining?

We've been used to change and travel with the Italians and two existing South African sides coming in, so the players are pretty open to it. As long as it's done right, having the four top South African teams on board would be exciting and it open up a whole new market in our league. It's worked to a certain degree having the Kings and Cheetahs involved but to get the Bulls, , Lions and Stormers in as well would bring a new dimension.

Talk of a British & Irish League seems to have died away, but how would you fancy that instead?

That would be really exciting as well. From a B&I Lions perspective, if you could have the best players competing against each other week-in, week-out it would be very good, and from a travelling support point of view the Welsh fans would embrace it. They enjoy their European trips to , and Northampton so to be able to do that every week would be hugely appealing to supporters of all the regions in Wales. Talk of a B&I League has gone quiet but with CVC's investment in rugby, you never know what potential avenues might open up. Scarlets fans enjoy a bus trip at the best of times, so visiting the English sides every other week would be heaven!

Without writing you off, what are your career highlights to date?

A couple stand out. With Wales it would be the 2019 Grand Slam. Clinching it in Cardiff, in the style we did against Ireland, was a big moment in our careers – the culmination of 18 months of hard work. For Scarlets, I'd say our Champions Cup quarter-final win over at Parc y Scarlets in 2018 was huge. It was the first big European night since leaving Stradey Park and to have 16,000 fans roaring us on to victory meant a hell of a lot. Phil Bennett said it best, that Park y Scarlets had finally found its soul. We want to replicate that more regularly now and I'd love to win more silverware.

Leave a Comment