Q&A with Saracens backs coach Kevin Sorrell

Kevin Sorrell joined Saracens as a player in 1995 and has been their backs coach since 2012. He tells NEALE HARVEY how the club evolved from humble beginnings into European champions.
You've had 21 years at Saracens as player and coach, does it feel like a life sentence?
It's absolutely flown by and it's never felt like a chore, but I could never have imagined being here so long. It was all amateur when I joined from Campion School, Hornchurch, in 1995, but then Nigel Wray got involved and nobody would have expected it to have panned out as it has since.
Where would Saracens be without Nigel Wray?
Nowhere near what it is now, that's for sure. His involvement, not only on a financial level but on an emotional level and the way he supports the club, is a huge part of what we're about. Along with Nick Leslau and Dominic Silvester, who've also been there from the beginning, all of them have put their time, effort and money into it. Nigel's as passionate now as he was at the start and it's been a hell of a journey under him.
You missed out on silverware as a player, did you feel a bit unfulfilled there?
When guys like Francois Pienaar arrived we put a lot of foundations in place, but from finishing second, third and fourth in the Premiership things fell away, so it was a bit frustrating at times. There was a fair bit of coaching transition year to year and we were so inconsistent. It's important when you look back that you take those losses and translate it into what we're doing now. It hasn't gone to waste and we've become a lot more consistent.
Did you fear your Saracens days were over when Brendan Venter arrived and instigated a mass clearout in February 2009?
Yes. There was a lot of confusion about what was going on and when those decisions were made to release so many players, you looked at it and thought the club was being completely changed. But the proof of the pudding has been in what we've been able to do since that moment and the set-up has remained a lot more stable.
How did Brendan achieve that turnaround?
He got the squad together quickly and spelt out what was expected. There was a bargain that you would be treated exceptionally well, but in return you would have to work even harder and there was no argument. What we did then was set about building a bit of a family here, make everything tighter, and it was a pretty special ten weeks leading into the 2009-10 season. We were unbeaten in our first ten league games and have never really looked back.
Do you expect Venter, right, to achieve similar at London Irish now?
Knowing Brendan he's got an unbelievable amount of energy and he's very infectious in how he gets people to do things, follow him and work around him. I can only see him having a positive influence on Irish and what they're about in future.
You began coaching in the Saracens academy in 2010…who of the many players coming through has given you the most pleasure?
They were a pretty special group and many of them have gone on to play over 100 games – Owen Farrell, Jamie George, George Kruis etc – but the one I worked closest with was Duncan Taylor. He was a bit of an unknown from Bedford but I'd be going through his games deliberately trying to find an error because he was just so consistent. It took me three weeks to find a mistake so we had high hopes for him and what he was capable of. It took a while but, hopefully, everyone else appreciates Duncan now and he was one of our standout performers in winning the ‘double'.
You can add Will Fraser and Jackson Wray to that group as well, must be rare to have lads come through all together like that?
It's great because when you've got a group of lads who are all 24, 25 or 26 and have come through from being teenagers, the club is in their blood and is special to them. They're looking to kick on again now and make sure that what we've got we keep. We've got a good mix now of people from the outside, who bring different experiences and opinions, with the guys who came through our system to keep reinforcing what we're about.
How's the production line looking?
Well, we've seen what Maro Itoje can do and Nick Tompkins had a good opportunity with the Saxons in the summer so he's bubbling under nicely. We had a few guys involved in the England U20s World Cup win and we've still got high hopes for Nathan Earle. It's an important year for those guys and we've got five or six good young lads who we hope will kick on.
On the flipside, you've lost Aaron Morris and Ben Ransom to Quins and Irish?
It's a fine line sometimes and there's always going to be a bit of player turnover, but we'll wish those guys well and hope they push on in their careers. Ben's gone to Irish so we know he'll get good advice from Brendan and we'll keep an eye on him.
A lot of people still begrudge Saracens their success on the basis of style or reference to the salary cap. Does that bug you?
The important thing is that we're comfortable in our own skins in terms of what we do and what we're about. If people comment on us negatively or positively we sort of treat those two things the same. There's only one thing worse than criticism and that's praise because they can both lead to you changing your thoughts about what makes the club special. We don't take much notice of it.
You played in the Saracens side beaten by Munster in the 2008 Heineken Cup semi-final, so was last season's Champions Cup win extra special?
That game in 2008 was strange because we'd never got out of the group before. Nobody gave us a prayer and we ran Munster so close before losing 18-16, but we'd never experienced those big games before. The good thing now is that since 2009 we've made the top four of the Premiership every year so we're giving ourselves a chance to be involved in those big games. We've lost finals but as bad as those experiences are it's important to learn the lessons, so to finally get across the line in Europe last season was massive for me personally.
Pleased with your seven England EPS call-ups last week?
It's just reward for the hard work those boys have put in. A lot are young lads with time on their side to progress, so it's exciting for both us and England.
Impressed by the job Eddie Jones has done?
It's been pretty special. He's got them winning and understanding how to win, and to develop a mentality whereby they could go down to Australia, face a pretty hostile environment and come away with a 3-0 win is unbelievable. They're doing things right on and off the pitch.
Surprised that ex-Sarries skipper Steve Borthwick has taken so well to coaching?
No. He's unbelievably hard working and the level of detail he went into during his playing career was staggering. He was so diligent in his preparation and what he did around the club, so it's pretty obvious he's having a massive influence on England's performance at the set-piece.
Eddie's selected Ben Te'o and Manu Tuilagi as prospective No.12s, so how does he deal with them in relation to Owen Farrell at inside-centre?
Faz has been brilliant and his form during the Six Nations and through to the end of last season with us and England was staggering. He's been getting better and better and what he did on the Australia tour was pretty special. He's almost become the first name you want on the teamsheet now so I can see him being kept in there. It's just the combination you have around him really because Faz is so important, not just with what he brings on the ball but with his defence, kicking game and his voice. His contribution is massive and he hits it off well with George Ford. They know each other's game inside out so it's going to be very hard for Eddie to break up that partnership.
What's Alex Goode got to do to displace Mike Brown?
I'll be biased on this one because I see Goodey every day and what he does in training. He's a special player who has time on the ball and his awareness of what he can do with other people in space is simply top notch. His kicking game is second to none as well. I know what Alex is capable of and how high his standards are, but Mike Brown is no mug and he's been part of that winning team. It's good competition and you want all the individuals pushing one another. Hopefully Goodey will get a chance.
How have Brad Barritt and Chris Ashton reacted to being omitted by England?
Whenever anyone's not involved it feels like a kick in the teeth and they're disappointed, but it's a win-win for us and we now have two high-calibre players with us full-time.
What was the thinking behind making Brad captain this season?
Alistair Hargreaves was unfortunately injured at the start of the year and Brad did a brilliant job. Alistair and Brad worked together as captain and vice-captain in the previous two seasons anyway so there's really no difference. They're still working closely together and there's no drama.
Pound for pound, is Barritt, above, arguably the Premiership's best signing ever?
He's got to be up there. The guy's made of concrete, incredibly tough. Other players are wary of him in training because he's only ever 100 per cent and will hurt people. Not only is he a hell of a player, it's what he does off the pitch as well in how he is around the place. He's a massive part of this club in both the level of his performances and how he is around the lads.
Looking at this season's Premiership, who do you see as challengers?
Teams have recruited well and if you look at the people Exeter have brought in, they've got a very stable environment and added good quality. Wasps have signed some more good players and Northampton have brought in Picamoles, so I expect both of them to do well. Quins will be rejuvenated by their off-field changes and I expect Bristol will come up fancying their chances with a good backing behind them. There's no chance to relax in this league anymore and if you're slightly off your game you'll get caught out.
Done anything different over the summer to try and maintain an edge?
I've been lucky in that Saracens are very active in developing players and coaches, so myself and kicking coach Dan Vickers went to Australia to have a look at a couple of NRL clubs and an AFL side. We spent time at Brisbane Broncos, Melbourne Storm and Hawthorn, plus we dipped into the Rebels, and it was a brilliant trip that got the juices flowing. It's very stimulating because you see bits and pieces going on at other clubs and can debate the merits of what you've seen. There are things you can take from different environments and we'll try to learn from that.
You've been backs coach at Sarries for four years now, any ambitions beyond that?
I sit next to (rugby director) Mark McCall and when I hear him speak about stuff and explain things it just makes me realise I've got a shedload more to learn. You never stop learning and a strength of what we've got here is that all the coaches are pretty open with one another and we're keen to push on as a group. It's a good environment for me to improve my knowledge and I'm not looking beyond that at the moment.
How good is Mark McCall and do you see him as a future international coach?
You'll have to ask him if he's got Test ambitions but I know his knowledge is pretty special. Brendan Venter made the initial impact here and put the wheels in motion, but Mark has taken that on and put his own stamp on it. He's driven it for the last five years and when people look back at the history of this club, his contribution has been massive. He's completely changed the way the club is run and he's a pretty shrewd operator.
How do you follow last season?
Our internationals have only just come back so we've had a chat about what we did last year and what we want to be seen as. It always comes back to us really and we just want to make sure that we hold ourselves accountable rather than being measured against anyone else. It's about maintaining our own high standards and improving on them.
You've not gone overboard on recruitment this summer?
No, but there's been no real need with the squad we have. It's been minimal turnover but we're really excited about our new signings in Schalk Burger, Savenaca Rawaca, Sean Maitland, Alex Lozowski, Vincent Koch and Mark Flanagan, who we believe are high quality additions.
Fly-half Lozowski's an interesting one from Wasps, will he get plenty of game time?
We've been tracking him for a while and when he was at Leeds we had a good look at him then. We knew he was a talented fly-half and with him not playing much at Wasps, we had an opportunity to get him. He's currently trying to understand our systems and calls but I'd anticipate him getting a good run in the side along with Faz. Charlie Hodgson has retired so the plan is that Alex will rotate with Faz and we've got Goodey who can play 10 as well.