Charlie Hodgson: It’s all so fierce now but guys like Owen Farrell can keep us on top

How did it feel to finish your playing career as a Premiership and Champions Cup ‘double' winner?
It's what dreams are made of. With the way the game is going to finish on my own terms at 35 is very pleasing, and to end it with wins in the Champions and Premiership Cup finals was incredible. I'm extremely grateful for the effort and hard work everyone at the club put in.
Now you're retired, tell us a bit about your new role as head of recruitment at Saracens?
It covers both the academy and senior team and I'll be identifying talent to come into our academy as well as looking at the gaps we'll have in our senior squad over the next two, three or four years and the progression around that, whether we can fill those slots from the academy or need to go out and bring people in. It's for me to discuss those issues with Mark McCall and the coaches and then research the players who we think are best suited to us.
And that remit extends worldwide?
Yes. There's a lot of scouting involved and I've already spent some time with Arsenal and Southampton football clubs looking at the systems they have in place. Football is way ahead of rugby in that respect but there's plenty you can learn and Southampton have been particularly successful in bringing through academy players to the first team.
When you say ‘the way the game is going', do you fear other players may not be as lucky?
With the physicality of the game now and the risk of injury, it wouldn't be surprising if careers do finish earlier than expected. I experienced serious injuries earlier in my career so feel fortunate to finish the way I did.
How has the league changed physically since you debuted for Sale in 2000?
It's on a different level now. Defences have got better, defenders are far stronger and there's so much detail behind what people do. Attack is much better as well and the breakdown has changed remarkably. It's not just one or two people competing at the breakdown now, virtually everyone on the field is doing it and the whole game has become so much more competitive. It's fierce and there's not much between teams now, so with that comes an increased risk of injury.
Players such as Owen Farrell, Mike Brown and Dan Cole have exceeded the 32-game limit this season. Does that concern you?
Yes. I can only speak for Saracens and I know that our performance department under Mark McCall do their best to give people breaks throughout the season, but this year's been slightly different with the World Cup at the start and you hope things will settle down again.
Is enough being done by clubs from a medical and player welfare perspective?
Sports science and medical provision is so much better than it was and things like concussion are reported and acted upon much more now. That's why you've seen a spike in rates because people are no longer scared to talk about it. As the intensity and physicality of rugby increases I'd say the medical side is keeping pace and the support players get now is way better. Whether it's a concern I don't really know, because professional rugby is in its infancy still.
How well equipped are Saracens to eclipse previous winning dynasties created by Bath, Leicester and Wasps?
They certainly have the capability to do that. With the age profile of our team and the standard of player coming through from the academy – from Alex Goode, Owen Farrell, George Kruis and Jamie George to Maro Itoje and Nick Tompkins – there's obviously a great pipeline of talent. They're all young and if they continue to work hard, which I know they will, it can only mean good things. Nick's just made his mark with the Saxons and we had three guys win the U20s World Cup in Max Malins, Matt Gallagher and Billy Walker, so it looks pretty promising.
How close is Farrell to being in the same class as Jonny Wilkinson?
Jonny was an unbelievable player and it's difficult to make comparisons with guys who haven't played against each other much, but Owen's done fantastically well and he is well on the way to becoming one of those players you'll remember for a long time. Owen's on his own journey now, but he's only 24 and already has 43 caps.
Owen's enjoyed a stellar end to the season, what stands him out?
Just his attitude, work-rate and competitive edge. He doesn't take a backward step and you can see that in the way he transmits himself on the pitch. Basically, he doesn't take sh*t from anybody and he wants to achieve, wants to get better and that's infectious within any squad.
There used to be a bit of petulance to Owen's game, but he appears to have stamped that out?
That just comes with growing up and the maturity he's gained from playing more big games and understanding what has and hasn't worked previously. It's something he'll have thought about and continues to think about as he gains more experience as a player.
The George Ford/Farrell 10/12 axis has worked well for England. Will that give Saracens food for thought?
At Saracens, Owen's our fly-half, but whether what he's been doing for England will change the dynamic of what he does here, who knows? It's been great the way he's been going and Eddie Jones will have decisions to make in the autumn if Henry Slade, Manu Tuilagi and Ben Te'o come out firing. But the axis between George and Owen has certainly been very successful and Eddie might see no reason to change it.
What's Eddie managed that Stuart Lancaster failed to do?
You can see from the attitude of the players that Eddie's getting the best out of them. Whether that's down to what he's saying or the detail he's putting into how they're supposed to play, they're certainly getting what they want.
England have never been short of quality players but Eddie has unrivalled experience in the Test arena. I haven't spoken to our guys much about it but someone like Billy Vunipola has come out of his shell massively. Rather than being told he's not fit enough or is carrying a bit of extra weight, Eddie's been saying he can be a world-class player and that he's close to being that already. It's just a simple shift in mentality and how you say things to people can make a massive impact on them.
Would you say Eddie's been more decisive?
Certainly with selection. He's kept the same team together a lot and shows faith in them; but you saw in the first and third Tests against Australia that he's prepared to make changes if something's not right. It was Luther Burrell first, then Teimana Harrison, so if he's made a decision he feels is wrong he's confident enough to admit it.
Alex Lozowski arrives from Wasps to replace you at Sarries, how do you see him going?
From what I've seen he's a fantastic talent. He's not had the opportunity to do what he wanted at Wasps so he's going to get an opportunity here to have more game time, and if Owen's away he'll be in the box seat to take control of the team. As a young guy that's what he'll want and we're really looking forward to having him on board.
Back to your own career, would missing the 2003 and 2007 World Cups through injury be the biggest regrets?
I'm not sure they're regrets because it's taken out of your hands really. Of course there were bad bits, but that's the nature of professional sport and to have achieved what I have with Sale and Saracens is something I'm immensely proud of. I'm just grateful for the opportunities I had.
Aside from the injuries, did your England career suffer because your name wasn't Jonny Wilkinson?
I've never really wanted to look at it like that as it's kind of making up an excuse for why something didn't go well. From an England point of view some people take to international rugby like ducks to water and some people find it hard. I will always admit that international rugby for me was a tough environment to be in. Sometimes it went well, sometimes it didn't, but that was the nature of it for me. That said, I'm immensely proud to have represented England 38 times and toured with the Lions, but of course you'd have liked things to have gone better.
That 2005 Lions tour to New Zealand was a disaster, how tough will it be for them down there again next year?
Incredibly hard. New Zealand have shown that even in losing a few top players it doesn't make much difference to the way they play. They are incredible at just moving up a gear and moving things on before anyone else does and they always seem a step ahead. From my experience in 2005 it's going to be ridiculously tough, even against the Super Rugby teams.
What went so wrong under Sir Clive Woodward in 2005?
Part of the problem was the size of the group. Clive picked two different squads – a midweek one and a Test one – and that made it a hard tour off the field. From an individual perspective I enjoyed it, but from a team perspective it wasn't great and I wouldn't recommend that again. A Lions tour is about the bonds you create off the field with people from other countries you don't come across on a week-to-week basis, but if you'd asked me if I knew anybody from the Test team better at the end than I did at the start of the tour, I'd say No. We spent very little time together and that was rather sad, but Warren Gatland has shown he understands it by selecting smaller squads who work together and are far more unified.
Mark McCall's name has been mentioned in connection with a Lions coaching position, what would he bring to the party?
His contribution here at Sarries has been unbelievable, both behind the scenes and on the field with the players, and he's been great to work with. He's a pretty quiet guy but he knows exactly what he wants and how to get the best out of people.
How many Sarries boys do you expect to get on that tour?
Six or seven have a very good chance after what they've done for us and England. The Lions is not just about picking guys from the best teams, though, you've got to have a decent balance and there are unbelievably talented players in other nations as well. There's a lot of rugby to be played over the next 12 months and all our guys can do is keep standards high.
How do you view the current state of Premiership rugby?
I think it's brilliant. The attitude of teams is great, although there are times during the winter when it becomes an attritional game without many tries scored. But it's very competitive now and either side of the winter months it's a great spectacle.
So you'd favour a move towards playing more games in summer?
Yes I would. There are a hell of a lot of hurdles but you can see by the product on offer at the start of the season and again in spring that there's a remarkable difference in the way the game is played. Tries and points scored are very high and I would certainly advocate a shift in season. It's something that needs to be looked at very carefully when World Rugby and the various Unions come to discuss the structured season.
Sarries have had their artificial pitch for three years now and Newcastle and Worcester have followed suit. What's your opinion of them?
I'm a big fan. There can be issues with burns on your knees and elbows but at times when some other pitches are terrible, on our pitch you can still have a good game even when the weather is really poor. There's no evidence to suggest you get more injuries on artificial turf than you do on grass and I've always enjoyed playing on them.
Finally, is there any chance of you donning the boots again… for Old Albanian perhaps?
Never say never, but I certainly won't play below the Premiership again. I might train with the lads if they need an extra body in defence, but I don't think I'll be an Andy Goode!